Blah, blah, blah.
For the gay marriage part, the government defines a frame of rules. If they don't suit everyone, some people will want to get them changed. There are gays. They want gay marriage to be allowed. There are psychopath murderers. They want the society to allow you to kill anyone you want to for no apparent reason. I'm not comparing gays with murderers, I'm just saying that *somewhere*, there has to be a certain restriction for what members of society can and can't do. And the government sets this line, without anyone with the key in hand to know what's perfectly right for everyone. There is no such solution.

And KagomJack, really, I don't care. Bush makes the sole pronounciation of "The United States" to stink. And it takes effort to make a sound stink. He had his chance, and he should go. Kerry may not be much better, but at least he hasn't failed yet unlike others.

Kerry will fail. Kerry would try to negotiate with terrorists and he would let the terrorists have their way. Trust me, Kerry is a bad thing...

If Kerry becomes president I fear we are doomed.

It would be like Chruser giving Zelaron to The1.

You've got it ass backwards !K_A! Kerry taking office woudl be like The1 giving Zelaron to Chruser. The1 and Bush are on about the same intelligence level.

Slim, face it, Kerry is an asshole who will make America messed up. Don't insult Bush Slim...it's not nice ;)

I'll put this in terms you can understand. Pimpiroth > Bush

I'll put this in better terms:

Bush > Pimpiroth
Bush > The1
Bush = better

You said better terms, not blatant lies.

By the way, here's the current state of the draft legislation. Its fairly side-tracked for the time being. Not dead, but not doing much either.

-frick

S 89 Status
S.89
Title: A bill to provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Sen Hollings, Ernest F. [SC] (introduced 1/7/2003) Cosponsors (None)
Related Bills: H.R.163
Latest Major Action: 1/7/2003 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Armed Services.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
STATUS: (color indicates Senate actions)
1/7/2003:
Read twice and referred to the Committee on Armed Services.

HR 163 Status
H.R.163
Title: To provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Rep Rangel, Charles B. [NY-15] (introduced 1/7/2003) Cosponsors (14)
Related Bills: S.89
Latest Major Action: 2/3/2003 House committee/subcommittee actions. Status: Executive Comment Requested from DOD.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
STATUS: (color indicates Senate actions)
1/7/2003:
Referred to the House Committee on Armed Services.
2/3/2003:
Executive Comment Requested from DOD.
2/3/2003:
Referred to the Subcommittee on Total Force.

How can you say that? In my eyes, not only has Bush failed the United States with his blatant lies of "weapons of mass destruction" in Iraq, but he has failed the rest of the world as well by being a power-hungry warmonger. What baffles me is how you people can accuse Kerry of failing before he has even had a chance. I honestly don't know how great of a president he will be, but it would take a hell of a lot of effort to be a worse president than Mr. Bush.

I want you to list me EXACTLY what bush has done wrong instead of calling him a "power hungry warmonger" and all that bullshit you keep babbling.

Besides give the US our largest national deficit in history and start a pointless war in Iraq?

I have listed it a numerous number of times.

Here it is again:
http://www.zelaron.com/forum/showthr...382&post390382

Look, the only reason John Kerry would fail is because he is one of those people who goes "I believe in what you believe!" He is also very 2 faced. Besides, the terrorists want him as prez so they can get away with more shit.

Kagom, quit assuming stupid shit. Bush makes this country look like a big pile of dog shit, there is no way in hell anyone could do worse. The man is a complete and utter moron.

No, trust me. It's a gut feeling. Kerry would not only fuck up this country, but would be the result of the US becoming some other country's bitch.

You're going to determine the quality of leadership of a possible future president on a gut feeling?

Yes, because gut feelings are always better than cold hard facts.

It's not just that. The things I"ve read about him...it's that and the gut feelings. I usually trust my gut feelings.

My gut feeling told me to kill someone a while ago...

Bet that'd be a good thing to trust.

laugh all you want. Kerry would just try to negotiate with the terrorists, and then they'd attack us anyway and he'd go "Well, we did all we could." JFK would be spinning in his grave if Kerry was to be prez.

He's spinning in his grave at the moment because of Bush making a mockery of what it is to be preisdent.

UNfortunatly, more people at this point want peace, and will probably go with him.

Ok, why is John Kerry the better choice? Can you give me cold hard evidence that John Kerry could help our country? Shit, I'm sure JFK would prefer Bush over Kerry any day.

I don't even know why this war is still going on. All we did was bomb the hell out of a country on a speculation, totally pointless.

Honestly, all you know about Kerry is what you've read. Many of the papers you will read are biased, and blindly following a gut feeling that Kerry will sell out simply exemplifies immaturity. I'll keep my mind open to that possibility, but I'm not going to base my opinion of a man on what I think he might do.

I was supportive when he went in at first. But now, im starting to agree. Get the fuck out. There is no more point to stay. Appoint some govnt, and LEAVE

Yeah, and what we read about Bush isn't biased? Seriously, no matter what you read is going to be biased. I have read things about Kerry from independant sources.

The founding fathers are spinning in their graves because he's making a mockery of our Bill of Rights with his patriot act.

Kagom, MJordan has posted a link telling why Bush flat out sucks several times. I suggest you click it and find out why Kerry would make a better president.

Yes, but we've also experienced what Bush has done. I'm basing my decision on facts, not a "gut feeling," as you stated.

I didn't agree with the Patriot Act. The thing is, I'm not pro-Bush, but I prefer Bush over Kerry.

I support Kerry, but since I live in Massachusetts, that is to be expected. Due to the electoral system and the fact that Massachusetts will most certainly fall to Kerry, my vote will be nearly useless.

Bush has angered me time and time again as follows:
- tightening laws on abortion rights
- preventing stem cell research for the fighting of disease
- pulling out of the anti-ballistic missile treaty
- failing to participate in the Kyoto treaty negotiations (for global warming management)
- failing to participate in the International War Crimes tribunal negotiations
- lying to the American public about the existance of WMDs
- making it legal to destroy more and more of this nations forests
- appointing people like Gail Norton, Donald Rumsfeld and John Ashcroft (who I can create different lists for)
- making enemies with half the world
- destroying the middle east peace efforts of Carter and Clinton that were close to success
- tax breaks such as estate tax and dividends that are geared primarily toward the rich
- and finally...for bringing religion into government in DIRECT opposition to the principal of separation between church and state which the country was founded on.

I ask you to consider this list before deciding your vote.

-frick

Yup, bush IS a dumbfuck. It's been well established.

Something about tax:

Every year an independant tax watchdog group analyzes the average tax burden on Americans, and then calculates the "Tax Freedom Day." This is the day after which the money you earn goes to you, not the gov't. This year, tax freedom day was on April 11th. That's the earliest it's been since 1991. The latest day ever was May 2nd, which occurred in 2000. Notice anything special about these dates? Today (June 9th) Kerry gave a speech in which he claimed Americans are actually paying more taxes under Bush, despite tax cuts. He gave no explanation and provided no data for this claim.

Another interesting fact:

Both George W. Bush and John Kerry are wealthy men. Bush owns only one home, his rance in Texas. John Kerry owns 4 mansions, all worth several million dollars. (His ski resort home in Idaho is an old barn brought over from Europe in pieces. Not your average A-frame)

Bush paid $250,000 in taxes this year; Kerry paid $90,000. Does this sound right?

The man who wants to raise your taxes obviously has figured out a way to avoid paying his own.

You're settling. I refuse to settle for something as important as the leadership over the most powerful country in the world. Bush, in my eyes, has failed; Kerry has not. I am willing to take a gamble, and a pretty good gamble at that looking at how horridly Bush has failed, on Kerry, instead of settling with another lacklustered four years.

Look, I don't agree with the Patriot act, but that's one of the very few things I disagree with when it comes to Bush. I wouldn't trust Kerry at all. I know you don't give a shit about my gut feelings, etc. But I don't think it would be a good gamble at all.

Then you're settling.

lol.

Federal and State taxes are based on income, dude, not property. Please research your information prior to posting and misleading others.

-frick