Good vs. Evil Tournament?
 

How about it? Either there is one-on-one good vs evil combat, or team battles. Choose which.


I like one-on-one more. The fighter you support might be able to win, but not if he's paired with a loser. Example: Kuja with Samus. Just totally different. Would never work so Kuja would crash and burn.

The point of the battles are for the spectators (us) to argue creatively for or against the combatants. If people that are paired up are completely different, then the battles would be much more interesting as completely new strategies would have to be formed. I don't see why anyone would be against this.

I would like one with half the characters good and half the characters evil, all the good against each other for 1 best good guy, all the evil against each other for 1 best bad guy. Put these two against each other and have a battle of the century kinda battle.

But what genre though? More specifications need to be made. I like teams, but there are also a few other ideas I've liked. Once this Tournament is over, something will get decided. ;)

I think cross-game, cross-genre teams would be spectacular. Strategies would have to be completely re-thought, and I like the idea of making the arguments more complex.

Yeah that be awesome.

I don't know about cross-genre though, that may cause a few too many mis-matches...

Who cares? It will be fun for people to try to conquer those mismatches with character skills.

Thats exactly why i dont think it would be good. At least for now. Maybe in 2-3 zelaron melee it would be something worth checking again. Since right now rules are still subject to change. So i think sticking to more simple stuff would be better to strengthen the base of zelaron melee.

I was also wondering who you would want in a tournament like this.

team battles will probably only be good if very carefully picked and matched anyways

Yes, this is why im saying we should stick to simpler stuff for now. We could still do team match but i think we should for now keep it to members of the team being from same game to like i said "keep it simple".

That goes against the entire purpose of the battles in the first place. The purpose is to create arguments and work with a character's abilities. Grouping characters up with people whom they've already been partnered with requires no thought. It only requires picking which did the most damage. That's a rediculous way to have a tournament.

If anyone simply wants to say that the characters from one game are better than those from another (and I'm sure many of you are dying to do just that), then do that. There is no reason have a tournament for that purpose.

There is no balance no matter how well the teams are made. The level of power of a character n Zelaron Melee depends on what the members here give to them. If someone simply says team A is strong, and they most certainly are, then they are strong. However, if someone argues that team B could and would do such and such to overcome that, and if that argument is feasable, team B would win. It does not matter which characters are paired. All that matters is the creativity of us.

With that in mind, why would you want to keep things pre-matched? I say pick characters just like were done for this tournament, put the names in a hat, and draw them out to make the teams. If someone thinks a team is stacked, then perhaps someone at Zelaron will argue for the underdog. This was the case in several battles, and the argument is the only decision-maker for the judges. It has absolutely nothing to do with the characters themselves.

Just so you know same game doesnt mean that they are in a group.

If you remember an example i had made of team it was this.
The only team that actualy play together would be
Magus, Crono, Frog.
Seifer, Sqall, Zell.
Sabin, Edgard, Terra.

But anyway even then.
Magus doesnt have his boss ability in ct and same goes for Seifer.
Which mean that only the ff6 party would be having mostly limitation to what was done with them in the game. But then again in Zelaron Melee battle work differantly. Which make it still open to some new stuff.

Or maybe we should try and get more activity first...
Some of the battles had little to no participation.

It will be very disappointing to see how much work the Zelaron Melee mods have put in, and yet it recieved no attention from us. For instance...Simon vs. Sigma.

EDIT:
Anyway, I think it is easier if the Team members are all from the same game. Why? Some people are not too familiar with all the games. Say, a team that consists of Diablo (From Diablo series), Ayame (From Tenchu) and Mario (From...Mario). It will be hard for someone to know all three characters, considering that we all play different games, some prefer different genres, etc, and it will affect the activity of the battles, overall.

People might just look at the team and think, "I know nothing about that character in that team so I'm not going to participate."

If the characters are from the same game however, it will be easier. Just because it is from the same game series, doesn't mean the teams have to consist of characters from the same side (in the game).

i havent been around long enough to really say much

but i agree with senesia.. there really isnt much participation as it is
it seems that arguments go on between just a few of the same ppl
and the thread dante vs samus seemed to come pretty close to being a stillborn.. if i can remember correctly some people didnt even realize that battle had started

i mean thereare only 14 total threads in this board (that i can see).. theres really not enough experience here to even have a gist of what the zelaron melee would be getting into.. not to mention not enough people to mold it

What do you mean Zel Melee mods? Raziel is the only mod...



I think Lord Shinnok should participate. If he wishes of course.

Well, there will be no overlaps, since with single genre tournaments, all the bases will be covered before the same genre is reused, if it ever is.

Honestly, I think a different genre, but the same format as this one should be next, then we can start teaming up genre's. I like this better because, I for example, really didn't know much about most of the characters in the current tournament, but after going through this up to now, I have a much better understanding for different characters abilities. Therefore, after one more tournament of learning abilities better, I can start participating more effectively in multi-genre tournaments.

Its not concrete yet, but we'll see. Oh, and I think they were referring to Raziel, Uncapped, and me as the Zelaron Melee Mods, since we are the judges and have the final say.

I just see it as the wrong idea concering RPGs...

Medieval Bob's right, it gets a tad too boring if all the characters for a team line-up would be from the same series. It would defeat the purpose of having a team in the first place. Characters with different attributes and what-nots would then have to work together and it's our job as the "posters" (^^;;) to give them a hell of a battle in order to choose the winning team, to give them the reward they deserve. I'm sure those Team Battle Melees would be FUN, FUN, FUN~~~!!!

How so ? It's not cause they are in same serie/game that they actualy played together. So it is a whole new strategy and it does have a purpose. It wouldnt work having something so complex at this time as i said before. The rules are still subject to change/tweek and there is a great lack of activity. For now something simpler doesnt seem like an option, it seem like the logical choice.

Well, the REASON you create teams is that these people were brought together to work for one common goal. Besides, it'd be boring if all the characters in one game end up in one team, you already know each and every single advantage and disadvantage those characters have to offer, and you'll only end up tweaking a little bit of here and there. I know they're not together in a party, but at LEAST you know what the other characters are like, and how they play. You only need to do minor adjustments and that's that.

As for the team idea, heck, the mod and his other judges in this forum already have trouble keeping each and every one-VS-one battle balanced, what more with teams! Besides, this is just an idea brought forward, and I'm pretty sure we'd be seeing something like this (or not at all) once they've got all their battle plans all sorted out. As you said, this forum isn't that very busy lately. I guess this is what this thread for (and the other one as well).

What you said about team is rather flawed. It's not because they are from the same game that we will know all their possibility. Even if they were from diff. game we would know them too. The basic idea was to make it simpler to balance team. Anyway, it seem teams at all are a 2 big step. I can understand that since balancing would still be very hard at this point. Maybe in a few Zel Melee it will happen. But not any soon.

I mean, you've fought those boss guys and you've met those otherwise cool non-party members along your travels, and you've seen how they fight, that should give you a rather barebones idea of how those characters go about their fighting or casting or whatever techniques. And YES, you simply can't KNOW how a villain or non-party character would fare in a team battle situation with the main characters of the same game since their strengths/weaknesses were rather limited to what we only saw. And YES, this is just an IDEA. I'm not expecting it anytime soon, given the hell load of work to make this team melee as balanced as possible.

First, the statement about teams consisting of characters from various games is true because they are from different games. Yes, it is very simple to look up all the moves on a walkthrough. Yes, you can do it for each character in any number of games. The trick is that it is possible for new strategies to be created.

I don't know what your vision of the actual battles is, but I'm sure they would not be squared off as on an RPG. Teams would scramble and help each other against their foes. They would not stand next to each other, wait for their turn, and hit a random person on the other side with their weapon.

That means that characters from their own games with their own separate sets of physics would have to work together to use their individual abilities as a team.

If you give me the names of three characters from one game that I've played (and I'm sure this will go for everyone else), I can tell you their strategy. That's the end of the story. However, if I give you the names of three characters from other games, can you tell me what their battle plan would be?

Turok
Fulgore
Seymour

I can tell you exactly what it's gonna look like.
Turok from and Seymour would be attacking from behind. Turok being close to action then Seymour. Seymour would basicly attack the other team and be a healer mainly to Fulgore that would be all out in battle taking care of projectile with his energy shield thing and doing some minor attack while never engaging in melee battle unless needed and if needed try to do a few melee attack and a grab to get away from melee range.
So turok would be mass damage on single unit.
Seymour mass damage on single/several unit and healer of basicly only Fulgore.
Fulgore the meat shield that is kinda invulnerable to range attack.

See ? Battle plan arnt harder to make it took me a sec to think of that and it wouldnt take me more to think of anything else. I never even played any of the game these char are in. The only thing that is harder is the ballancing and that would be extremly long just ask Raziel if it would be easy to balance team. It would already be hard with character from same game/serie. So how hard you think it would be from diff. game ? No matter what char you bring we basicly know all about them. It actualy is funny cause i built a whole strategy with 3 char i know only because of Zelaron Melee. So it isnt true that because they are from diff. game it's harder and needing more creativity.

Who's to say Fulgore wouldn't back up and shoot laser beams? If they are fighting against three melee-type characters, then he would be pummeled. If The enemies went straight for Seymour, then what would they do?

My point is that a layout like that can't be set. It must vary with the challenges.

And finally, why do things need to be balanced? If teams come out stacked randomly, then so be it. There is no reason to offset the odds for any character. If a character is particularly weak, or if nobody wishes to support him, then there is no reason for him to win. If a team is particularly weak, then what is wrong with that? -Nothing- They will lose their fight, and all will be right with the cosmos.

Cause there will be no activity without balance. The point isnt to just have a bunch of winner. It's to have the battle active and interesting too. With little to no activity cause of possible great imbalance you might has well use a program that will pick the winner randomly then we make a thread and spam Yay, Boo or whatever.

P.S. Fulgore staying at distance with other would lead to complete disaster when the enemy reach melee range. Even if there was 3 melee didnt you read the part about avoiding melee combat ? He would just bait em arround if they were melee and enemy would get damaged while HE get Healed!

Of course,the purpose of making it interesting is so that other people wouild be motivated to take part in it.

But the teams have to be balanced. As I've pointed out earlier, it won't be any fun if a team's made up of all casters or any same type of class. It would be rather easier to deduce the winner without making much of a fuss...

Well even in same game. The character each have their own advantage. Like in megaman serie. Let's just look at 3 quickly.
Megaman X, Zero and Bass. They are all reploid with similar capacity but personal advantage.
Megaman is basicly a ranged unit that move lot.

Zero is mostly a Melee unit with some range attack but he is melee and move lot.

Bass is mostly a *turret* really. He cant move while shooting unless the movement is by jump or he is transformed with his dog(I dont remember the name) His buster is shooting very quick and his special attack he get from boss are mostly made to make his *turret* position stronger.