William Birkin vs. Dante

No one will step forward to say Dante will win? I mean, the odds are slim that he'll survive, but at least give it a shot. I don't know shit about Dante, so making a battle scenario with just what I know will end up with a very limited and understandably bias conclusion.

Sorry to go a bit off topic here, but do any of you two know where I can get the whole RE storyline.

Click here. Underneath the "In-Depth FAQs" header, there's one called "Plot Analysis" by TWilde and President Evil. It has full, well-written synopses for almost every game in the series.

The one major weakness of William Birkin is he is way too slow, except for his Cerberus form.

The general tactics of fighting Mutated William goes like "Keep a good distance, Attack, Run around before he strikes." He usually makes large action before he strikes, for example, raising his arm.

As for the instant death pipe hit, I'm not too sure about since when I played RE2, I didn't die in one hit... but then I was playing the PC version. Either way, it is not hard at all to dodge the hit, not to mention his first form is quite weak (at least, he ran away after a few shot).

And I wasn't even talking about Dante, I was talking about how a human would take on William.

As for Dante? Well, there are many different ways Dante can defeat him. (Talking DMC3 now) For firearm, the easiest choice would Ebony & Ivory with Kalina Ann (dual pistols and a Rocket Launcher, and there's no need to worry about ammos).

As for his devil arms? Well.. it's a bit tough, but any weapon would work. I'll go with Agni & Rudra + Nevan.

Style-wise, having Trickster is not necessary, because it is easy enough to dodge William's attack as it is. (Quick Roll and Air Hike are enough)

SwordMaster and Royal Guard would be the best for this battle. SwordMaster will end this fight so much faster, while Royal Guard will... render Dante untouchable.

As I've mentioned, the general tactic is not to stay too close, and not too far because William will jump (not that it is a problem for Dante). At a mid distance, it is free shot with Kalina Ann. To be honest, I think William will go down with several Rockets... no matter which form he is in. (also, this is mutation, not transformation, so he cannot go back to his previous form)

Dante can certainly do this with the Rocket Launcher, too. With his Ebony & Ivory... he can rain bullets onto William. While E&I works well in any distance, I'd say Dante will get close just for argument's sake.

(Assumming SwordMaster)
Equipped with the electric guitar Nevan, the first move will be "Reverb Shock," charged into the enemy with lightning along with electric bats. Then just for style, he will Tune-up right in front of William. (Tune-up will stun any nearby enemies, and can be followed up with varies combo)

After the Tune up, Dante can get into Jam Session, summoning a swarm of bats to charge at his foe.

And those he would do just for the style (and it will fill up his devil gauge). To get serious, Dante will go into Devil Trigger and execute Air Raid. Flying around in the air and shooting Thunder Bolt, and occasionally go personal with Vortex, dealing massive damage.

That's only with one weapon though. Dante can switch Firearm/Devilarm at any given time as long as he is not executing a move. So, at anytime, he can switch to Agni & Rudra and call upon the power of Fire and Wind. The most powerful moves from A&R would be Aerial Cross, Crossed Swords, Sky Dance, Twister/Tempest. At a mid/far distance, Dante can also use Crawler, which call fire up from the ground toward the enemies.

Twister/Tempest is when Dante spins his swords really fast, and create a vortex of flame and wind to destroy anything in the area.

You might say that Dante will get hit sometimes. I really doubt that he would, due to the slowness of William, but even if Dante gets hit, it will not be the deadly attacks (since they are predictable). With the fast health regeneration in Nevan Devil Trigger, those lost health will be regained in no time.

(Assuming Royal Guard)
With Royal Guard, Dante will lose a few fancy moves such as Twister/Tempest, Sky Dance, Crossed Sword, Distortion etc. But he gains the blocking ability. and it is not JUST blocking, but it is block and charge.

Dante can block any attack with Royal Guard in DMC3. From the small sickle attack to huge-tentacle-whole-screen-wipe-out attack (which appear in DMC3). While the attack is blocked, the energy will be charged, and Dante can release it back to the them when he wants to, doing huge damage. The harder they hit... the harder they will get it back.

Also, there is the Ultimate move, which is blocking technique. But instead of JUST blocking, it blocks and ABSORBS the energy, and in turns healing Dante himself.

Except for Air Raid, all these moves do not require Devil Gauge at all and can be execute at any time (most are ground only) with any weapon.

think William will go down with several Rockets... no matter which form he is in. (also, this is mutation, not transformation, so he cannot go back to his previous form)

All William's forms could take a good deal of punishment from a Rocket Launcher. Of course, Dante's Launcher is probably more powerful than the one in RE2, but if there's one thing anyone who played RE2 noticed, it was Birkin's insane ability to regenerate and mutate into a more powerful form. I mean, he ripped off a chunk of his own body so that he could be more deadly.

Dante can certainly do this with the Rocket Launcher, too. With his Ebony & Ivory... he can rain bullets onto William. While E&I works well in any distance, I'd say Dante will get close just for argument's sake.

Another frustrating trait of Birkin's was that he eventually would simply march through blasts of rapid gunfire. He wouldn't stop. Near or far, Dante's bullets might hurt, but they wouldn't stop him. And that's only in his earlier forms. In his four-legged state (I really wouldn't call it Cerberus, but whatever) he can make quick leaps and bounds and he gives no indication that you're hurting him. Perhaps Dante coudl outrun Birkin, but you can't run forever.

Equipped with the electric guitar Nevan, the first move will be "Reverb Shock," charged into the enemy with lightning along with electric bats. Then just for style, he will Tune-up right in front of William. (Tune-up will stun any nearby enemies, and can be followed up with varies combo)

We saw that Spark Shot did stagger Birkin for a second but what would this electric attack do? We don't know what his body was eventually composed of and its inner-makeup. We don't know if electric attacks would do much, if any, serious damage.

Tune-up is a shitty new move. Seeing as Birkin existed only in a real-life simulating world, he has no experience with magic. I doubt his genetically altered body could counter it in any way.

After the Tune up, Dante can get into Jam Session, summoning a swarm of bats to charge at his foe.

Bats...probably with sharp teeth. Birkin's flesh is already pretty deformed. A few more chunks taken out of it won't make much of a difference. Also, if he was in his final form, a swarm of bats would be utterly pointless.

And those he would do just for the style (and it will fill up his devil gauge). To get serious, Dante will go into Devil Trigger and execute Air Raid. Flying around in the air and shooting Thunder Bolt, and occasionally go personal with Vortex, dealing massive damage.

A. Form 3 - Take the Bolt and continue to regenerate.
Form 5 - Run and jump away from the Bolts.
Form 6 - Wouldn't do much against this thing.

B. Form 3 - Bring it on! Be personal! Birkin will put his claws through his chest or head in a flash.
Form 5 - One quick grab and Dante will be clutched in the deadly jaws of Birkin. Torn to pieces with those teeth.
Form 6 - It would be suicide to charge this thing. Even if the massive swinging tentacles didn't manage to grab him, they'd be able to hit him and if he fell anywhere near Birkin's mass of spikes...

That's only with one weapon though. Dante can switch Firearm/Devilarm at any given time as long as he is not executing a move. So, at anytime, he can switch to Agni & Rudra and call upon the power of Fire and Wind. The most powerful moves from A&R would be Aerial Cross, Crossed Swords, Sky Dance, Twister/Tempest. At a mid/far distance, Dante can also use Crawler, which call fire up from the ground toward the enemies.

We saw a Tyrant take a dip in a pool of molten metal. (I think that's what it was) He got out of it and was noticably different, but very much alive. Following that, I don't think fire would slow down Birkin terribly much.

A vortex of flame and wind, huh? Is that incinterating fire? If not, Birkin could take it.


Wind would do the greatest damage and have the most effect on his 5th form. His other forms are massive, and his own power is just phenomenal. I don't think gusts of wind would do much.

Dante can block any attack with Royal Guard in DMC3. From the small sickle attack to huge-tentacle-whole-screen-wipe-out attack (which appear in DMC3). While the attack is blocked, the energy will be charged, and Dante can release it back to the them when he wants to, doing huge damage. The harder they hit... the harder they will get it back.

Ah, fuck. This is Birkin's weakness above all others. He has no real mind for self-defense. He presses forward with brutal force, but while he wasn't as stupid as a zombie, I really don't think his brain would realize that attacking is a bad thing.

I can create a strategy around everything else, but this.... Over in one post. I hate Dante.




For those of you who haven't had the pleasure of playing RE2, here's a fairly accurate drawing of all Birkin's forms. Note that the lower left one is actually bigger than any of the other forms.

Well, in RE2, William just flees after you shoot a few Magnums (usually aroudn 10 to 20) into him. I would assume he flees because he senses danger, or is threatened...

It is true that he can march through the bullets... in fact he did in the early forms, but he marches through them slowly and sustains damage. If a mere human such as Leon and Claire can outrun (outwalk?) and shoot him, then...

Dante's attack is not purely elemental. Yes, he creates Fire and Wind when he spins the Agni & Rudra (And they have power granted by the Demon Twins gate keeper!), but the swords themselves would actually cut as well. As for the effectiveness of Fire? Even the Flame Rounds can hurt William.

I would say that Electricity will hurt William. The power of Spark Shot can hardly compare to that of Nevan (Nevan is actually a demon, and the weapon has the power of that demon). The bat doesn't bite, they charge into their foes like bullets. Electrically charged homing bullets.

Also, Tune up isn't magic... I see it asa Sonic Wave more than anything.

As for Thunder Bolt and Vortex, I forgot to mention that Dante is invulnerable during Vortex.

Well, in RE2, William just flees after you shoot a few Magnums (usually aroudn 10 to 20) into him. I would assume he flees because he senses danger, or is threatened...

He only did that for the battle with his 3rd form. He grabs onto a passing ledge as the turntable descends. In every other battle, he continues on until he's spent. In the first fight, he simply falls over the ledge. In the others, he just collapses, except in transition from forms 4-5. Also note that his final form was never defeated except by the combination of a huge explosion and the train collapsing on him.

It is true that he can march through the bullets... in fact he did in the early forms, but he marches through them slowly and sustains damage. If a mere human such as Leon and Claire can outrun (outwalk?) and shoot him, then...

So....that's a lame strategy. Just have Dante run and keep shooting? That's what normal humans had to do. Dante should be able to take a more forward approach.

Dante's attack is not purely elemental. Yes, he creates Fire and Wind when he spins the Agni & Rudra (And they have power granted by the Demon Twins gate keeper!), but the swords themselves would actually cut as well. As for the effectiveness of Fire? Even the Flame Rounds can hurt William.

You're missing Birkin's key power. He takes damage, but he is an organism that is almost indestructible. He'll continue on, despite heavy damage. That's why he's so powerful. As for a sword, I'm curious to see how quick Dante could cut Birkin to ribbons before Birkin ripped his chest open.

I would say that Electricity will hurt William. The power of Spark Shot can hardly compare to that of Nevan (Nevan is actually a demon, and the weapon has the power of that demon). The bat doesn't bite, they charge into their foes like bullets. Electrically charged homing bullets.

I fail to see a huge threat. Some skin will be burned. They sure couldn't stop him. Unless Birkin will convulse from the electricity.

Can Dante maintain Vortex for a long period of time? (I am really starting to question how hard a game is when the hero can make himself untouchable in multiple ways.)

So....that's a lame strategy. Just have Dante run and keep shooting? That's what normal humans had to do. Dante should be able to take a more forward approach.

You can't be serious... You want Dante to stand toe to toe with someone that you decree can tear him to shreds? What kind of strategy is that?

That would be like you telling Bruce Lee to stand toe to toe with Mike Tyson and trade licks. Yes, Bruce Lee would likely pwn Tyson if he were actually fighting him doing what he does best, but he'd get a cracked skull if he just stood there and took it.

In DMC3, Vortex can only be executed in Air Raid mode, and Air Raid can only be executed with Nevan Devil Trigger, which consumes Devil Gauge.

DMC3 is probably the hardest action game in this decade.

How long does it take to fill the Devil Gauge? If it takes a long time, then that's kind of a bad strategy to use it.

You can't be serious... You want Dante to stand toe to toe with someone that you decree can tear him to shreds? What kind of strategy is that?

I'm not saying he has to stand toe-to-toe. I am saying that standing ten feet away while and moving backwards while constantly pumping Birkin full of bullets (an infinite number of bullets) is rather dull and unimaginative.