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Posted 2003-12-10, 10:35 AM in reply to Kuja`s #1's post "Good vs. Evil Tournament?"
Cerridwen said:
It would defeat the purpose of having a team in the first place.
How so ? It's not cause they are in same serie/game that they actualy played together. So it is a whole new strategy and it does have a purpose. It wouldnt work having something so complex at this time as i said before. The rules are still subject to change/tweek and there is a great lack of activity. For now something simpler doesnt seem like an option, it seem like the logical choice.
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Posted 2003-12-12, 07:55 AM in reply to Kuja`s #1's post "Good vs. Evil Tournament?"
Well, the REASON you create teams is that these people were brought together to work for one common goal. Besides, it'd be boring if all the characters in one game end up in one team, you already know each and every single advantage and disadvantage those characters have to offer, and you'll only end up tweaking a little bit of here and there. I know they're not together in a party, but at LEAST you know what the other characters are like, and how they play. You only need to do minor adjustments and that's that.

As for the team idea, heck, the mod and his other judges in this forum already have trouble keeping each and every one-VS-one battle balanced, what more with teams! Besides, this is just an idea brought forward, and I'm pretty sure we'd be seeing something like this (or not at all) once they've got all their battle plans all sorted out. As you said, this forum isn't that very busy lately. I guess this is what this thread for (and the other one as well).
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Posted 2003-12-12, 10:26 AM in reply to Kuja`s #1's post "Good vs. Evil Tournament?"
What you said about team is rather flawed. It's not because they are from the same game that we will know all their possibility. Even if they were from diff. game we would know them too. The basic idea was to make it simpler to balance team. Anyway, it seem teams at all are a 2 big step. I can understand that since balancing would still be very hard at this point. Maybe in a few Zel Melee it will happen. But not any soon.
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Posted 2003-12-14, 07:26 AM in reply to Kuja`s #1's post "Good vs. Evil Tournament?"
I mean, you've fought those boss guys and you've met those otherwise cool non-party members along your travels, and you've seen how they fight, that should give you a rather barebones idea of how those characters go about their fighting or casting or whatever techniques. And YES, you simply can't KNOW how a villain or non-party character would fare in a team battle situation with the main characters of the same game since their strengths/weaknesses were rather limited to what we only saw. And YES, this is just an IDEA. I'm not expecting it anytime soon, given the hell load of work to make this team melee as balanced as possible.
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Posted 2003-12-14, 09:33 AM in reply to Kuja`s #1's post "Good vs. Evil Tournament?"
Kuja said:
What you said about team is rather flawed. It's not because they are from the same game that we will know all their possibility. Even if they were from diff. game we would know them too. The basic idea was to make it simpler to balance team.
First, the statement about teams consisting of characters from various games is true because they are from different games. Yes, it is very simple to look up all the moves on a walkthrough. Yes, you can do it for each character in any number of games. The trick is that it is possible for new strategies to be created.

I don't know what your vision of the actual battles is, but I'm sure they would not be squared off as on an RPG. Teams would scramble and help each other against their foes. They would not stand next to each other, wait for their turn, and hit a random person on the other side with their weapon.

That means that characters from their own games with their own separate sets of physics would have to work together to use their individual abilities as a team.

If you give me the names of three characters from one game that I've played (and I'm sure this will go for everyone else), I can tell you their strategy. That's the end of the story. However, if I give you the names of three characters from other games, can you tell me what their battle plan would be?

Turok
Fulgore
Seymour
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Posted 2003-12-14, 02:09 PM in reply to Kuja`s #1's post "Good vs. Evil Tournament?"
I can tell you exactly what it's gonna look like.
Turok from and Seymour would be attacking from behind. Turok being close to action then Seymour. Seymour would basicly attack the other team and be a healer mainly to Fulgore that would be all out in battle taking care of projectile with his energy shield thing and doing some minor attack while never engaging in melee battle unless needed and if needed try to do a few melee attack and a grab to get away from melee range.
So turok would be mass damage on single unit.
Seymour mass damage on single/several unit and healer of basicly only Fulgore.
Fulgore the meat shield that is kinda invulnerable to range attack.

See ? Battle plan arnt harder to make it took me a sec to think of that and it wouldnt take me more to think of anything else. I never even played any of the game these char are in. The only thing that is harder is the ballancing and that would be extremly long just ask Raziel if it would be easy to balance team. It would already be hard with character from same game/serie. So how hard you think it would be from diff. game ? No matter what char you bring we basicly know all about them. It actualy is funny cause i built a whole strategy with 3 char i know only because of Zelaron Melee. So it isnt true that because they are from diff. game it's harder and needing more creativity.
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Posted 2003-12-15, 12:29 PM in reply to Kuja`s #1's post "Good vs. Evil Tournament?"
Who's to say Fulgore wouldn't back up and shoot laser beams? If they are fighting against three melee-type characters, then he would be pummeled. If The enemies went straight for Seymour, then what would they do?

My point is that a layout like that can't be set. It must vary with the challenges.

And finally, why do things need to be balanced? If teams come out stacked randomly, then so be it. There is no reason to offset the odds for any character. If a character is particularly weak, or if nobody wishes to support him, then there is no reason for him to win. If a team is particularly weak, then what is wrong with that? -Nothing- They will lose their fight, and all will be right with the cosmos.
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Posted 2003-12-15, 12:49 PM in reply to Kuja`s #1's post "Good vs. Evil Tournament?"
Cause there will be no activity without balance. The point isnt to just have a bunch of winner. It's to have the battle active and interesting too. With little to no activity cause of possible great imbalance you might has well use a program that will pick the winner randomly then we make a thread and spam Yay, Boo or whatever.

P.S. Fulgore staying at distance with other would lead to complete disaster when the enemy reach melee range. Even if there was 3 melee didnt you read the part about avoiding melee combat ? He would just bait em arround if they were melee and enemy would get damaged while HE get Healed!
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Posted 2003-12-25, 04:04 AM in reply to Kuja`s #1's post "Good vs. Evil Tournament?"
Of course,the purpose of making it interesting is so that other people wouild be motivated to take part in it.

But the teams have to be balanced. As I've pointed out earlier, it won't be any fun if a team's made up of all casters or any same type of class. It would be rather easier to deduce the winner without making much of a fuss...
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Posted 2003-12-25, 06:20 AM in reply to Kuja`s #1's post "Good vs. Evil Tournament?"
Well even in same game. The character each have their own advantage. Like in megaman serie. Let's just look at 3 quickly.
Megaman X, Zero and Bass. They are all reploid with similar capacity but personal advantage.
Megaman is basicly a ranged unit that move lot.

Zero is mostly a Melee unit with some range attack but he is melee and move lot.

Bass is mostly a *turret* really. He cant move while shooting unless the movement is by jump or he is transformed with his dog(I dont remember the name) His buster is shooting very quick and his special attack he get from boss are mostly made to make his *turret* position stronger.
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