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View Poll Results: De-Mod Yawgmoth?
Yes 18 69.23%
No 8 30.77%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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De-Mod Yawgmoth?
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Posted 2008-06-27, 08:00 PM
This poll is private, so vote as you will.

If you wish to state your opinion on the matter, that would be excellent.
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Posted 2008-06-27, 08:02 PM in reply to -Spector-'s post "De-Mod Yawgmoth?"
I think it's too soon to make a judgement. In a situation like this, sparks are almost guaranteed; that doesn't mean it can't work out in the long run.
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Posted 2008-06-27, 08:13 PM in reply to WetWired's post starting "I think it's too soon to make a..."
WetWired said: [Goto]
I think it's too soon to make a judgement. In a situation like this, sparks are almost guaranteed; that doesn't mean it can't work out in the long run.
No, it was too soon to make him a mod. De-mod him, let him hang around as one of the regular Joe's. IF, and only if, he can prove himself to be a decent member should he even be CONSIDERED for a mod. Seriously, had he even made a post before Chruser got Mod-happy over him?
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Posted 2008-06-27, 08:18 PM in reply to Slim's post starting "No, it was too soon to make him a mod...."
IIRC, I started an aquaintence out as a S. Mod and it turned out pretty well.

I, too, was quite surprised by Yawgmoth's moding and dislike the situation, too, but that doesn't mean it can't work.
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Posted 2008-06-27, 08:20 PM in reply to WetWired's post starting "IIRC, I started an aquaintence out as a..."
WetWired said: [Goto]
IIRC, I started an aquaintence out as a S. Mod and it turned out pretty well.

I, too, was quite surprised by Yawgmoth's moding and dislike the situation, too, but that doesn't mean it can't work.
No, that doesn't mean it can't work, but did you start off making everyone hate you?
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Posted 2008-06-27, 08:20 PM in reply to Slim's post starting "No, that doesn't mean it can't work,..."
Yes, he did. Generally, people automatically hate you when you leapfrog them to a staff position.
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Posted 2008-06-27, 08:24 PM in reply to WetWired's post starting "IIRC, I started an aquaintence out as a..."
WetWired said: [Goto]
IIRC, I started an aquaintence out as a S. Mod and it turned out pretty well.

I, too, was quite surprised by Yawgmoth's moding and dislike the situation, too, but that doesn't mean it can't work.
No, that doesn't mean it can't work, but you didn't start off making damn near the entire board hate you, did you? Sure, things might work out, but at this stage in the game things are much more likely to devolve into claims of power abuse and personally. The best recourse as I see it would be to de-mod, and let him earn the position as all the rest of Zel's current mods have. If it's felt he's up to snuff I have no problems with it. But right now he's too much of an X-factor.

Edit: Sorry for what is essentially a double-post. I can't for the life of me find the delete button..

Last edited by Slim; 2008-06-27 at 08:26 PM.
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Posted 2008-06-27, 08:27 PM in reply to Slim's post starting "No, that doesn't mean it can't work,..."
Myself, I climbed to power legitimately. This is about a different member that I brought on as staff with virtually no time as a normal member. People claimed he was power hungry, etc. at first too, but eventually he became a respected member of the staff.
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Posted 2008-06-27, 08:28 PM in reply to WetWired's post starting "Yes, he did. Generally, people..."
I don't think this is the case. His ideals don't really match with everyone's here, and I think he takes this forum way too seriously. This is a gaming forum, and therefore should be a more fun environment, with some restrictions of course.

Slim, you're right. He should prove himself to work for the good of this forum. In my eyes right now, he wants to mold and shape it to his way, which is contrary to what most of the member base wants. Why do you think -Spector- made this thread?
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Posted 2008-06-27, 08:32 PM in reply to WetWired's post starting "Yes, he did. Generally, people..."
WetWired said: [Goto]
Yes, he did. Generally, people automatically hate you when you leapfrog them to a staff position.
True enough, but I don't think most of us have our ire up because he's a nobody that got a staff position. It's because he's a rather large prick who happens to have a staff position for some reason unbeknownst to us.
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Posted 2008-06-27, 08:36 PM in reply to Slim's post starting "True enough, but I don't think most of..."
Regardless, it's Chruser, not I, that you have to convince. Myself, I wouldn't have staffed a member so quickly again for the reasons illustrated now and in the past, but that was Chruser's decision.
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Posted 2008-06-27, 08:37 PM in reply to WetWired's post starting "Regardless, it's Chruser, not I, that..."
WetWired said: [Goto]
Regardless, it's Chruser, not I, that you have to convince. Myself, I wouldn't have staffed a member so quickly again for the reasons illustrated now and in the past, but that was Chruser's decision.
I know this, and I'm not trying to jump down your throat with all this by any means, I'm just throwing it all out there for consideration.
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Posted 2008-06-27, 08:58 PM in reply to HandOfHeaven's post starting "I don't think this is the case. His..."
I have known Yawgmoth in real life for years, and I have no doubt that he means the best for Zelaron. His goals are indubitably to improve our community and to make it more popular, populated and thus more active. He is, however, very impatient with stagnation and resistance to experimentation and change, which I personally find to be a good quality, although it has a tendency to aggravate others.

Our goals are shared, but our strategies may vary. The ideas and provocations for beneficial changes which he grant us are definitely among the reasons why I am convinced that he should remain in the Zelaron administration.
"Stephen Wolfram is the creator of Mathematica and is widely regarded as the most important innovator in scientific and technical computing today." - Stephen Wolfram

Last edited by Chruser; 2008-06-27 at 09:01 PM.
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Posted 2008-06-27, 09:20 PM in reply to Chruser's post starting "I have known Yawgmoth in real life for..."
And what of the reasons why he shouldn't?
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Posted 2008-06-27, 10:14 PM in reply to !King_Amazon!'s post starting "And what of the reasons why he..."
!King_Amazon! said: [Goto]
And what of the reasons why he shouldn't?

1: Yawgmoth was given a Supreme Moderator position too soon!

Was he? He may not have been a Zelaron member for more than a year and a month, which is part of what makes him ideal for his job: He hasn't been biased by experiencing how things "should work" from our perspective.


2: "IF, and only if he can prove himself to be a decent member should he even be CONSIDERED for a mod"

How does the quality of being a dazzling display of decency relate to the ability of creating useful improvements for a community?


3: "The best recourse as I see it would be to de-mod, and let him earn the position as all the rest of Zel's current mods have."

Refer to #1. We need at least one staff member without as much experience as the rest.


4: "His ideals don't really match with everyone's here"

Differences in ideals leads to conflict and ideation. Occasional disagreement is a small price to pay for finding new, creative approaches to things. Also, conformity is a rarely seen quality in innovators and criminals alike. Why do you think members of both groups were commonly subject to the death penalty in the past?


5: "He takes this forum way too seriously"

How is that a problem? Refer to #4.


6: "He should prove himself to work for the good of this forum"

Point taken. It should, however, be noted that the desirous changes Yawgmoth likely will bring are not expected to be instantaneous. Zelaron has stagnated in a number of ways. It defies change, and change is Yawgmoth's forte. Conservatism is not intrinsically advantageous, thus arbitrary referrals to it are absurd.

Should his work prove continuously otiose, it would be reasonable to deprive him of his Supreme Moderator status.


7: "He's a rather large prick who happens to have a staff position for some reason unbeknownst to us"

Refer to my previous post and my responses to #1 and #4.


Hit me with whatever reasons to demod Yawgmoth that I missed. Furthermore, as I recently told -Spector- via AIM, if rational reasons are presented which outweigh the advantages of keeping Yawgmoth as a Supreme Moderator, he will be demodded without hesitation.
"Stephen Wolfram is the creator of Mathematica and is widely regarded as the most important innovator in scientific and technical computing today." - Stephen Wolfram

Last edited by Chruser; 2008-06-28 at 12:08 AM.
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Posted 2008-06-27, 10:17 PM in reply to Chruser's post starting "1: Yawgmoth was given a Supreme..."
Well, it's rather hard to persuade someone with biases of his own to de-mod Yawgmoth.
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Posted 2008-06-27, 10:20 PM in reply to HandOfHeaven's post starting "Well, it's rather hard to persuade..."
Yawgmoths ideals are way to radical. He practically came in here and said "This is how I want things done, and want it done now, and you're going to listen or I will ban you for it."
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Posted 2008-06-27, 10:25 PM in reply to Coriander's post starting "Yawgmoths ideals are way to radical. He..."
Coriander said: [Goto]
Yawgmoths ideals are way to radical. He practically came in here and said "This is how I want things done, and want it done now, and you're going to listen or I will ban you for it."
That's the feeling I was trying to convey.
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Posted 2008-06-27, 10:29 PM in reply to HandOfHeaven's post starting "Well, it's rather hard to persuade..."
HandOfHeaven said: [Goto]
Well, it's rather hard to persuade someone with biases of his own to de-mod Yawgmoth.

Should biases impair my capacity for rational thought to a significant extent, then yes, evidently. While Argumentum ad Populum is normally a fallacy, I may, however, not be thoroughly impervious to popular beseechment.
"Stephen Wolfram is the creator of Mathematica and is widely regarded as the most important innovator in scientific and technical computing today." - Stephen Wolfram

Last edited by Chruser; 2008-06-28 at 12:10 AM.
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Posted 2008-06-27, 10:42 PM in reply to Chruser's post starting "Should biases impair my capacity for..."
All Yawgmoth has done since recieve his S-Mod position is whine about how were doing everything wrong. No more talk about jews in posts, no more adding little bitty jokes about anything that doesn't contribute to the topic. If this forum gets over-run by little pricks like that, I'm out.
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