Heaven und Hell

So what you're saying is you're not really a christian, but you believe in a heaven and hell just in case. I was a christian for a long time, you'll go to hell anyways if you believe that way.

Mjordan, it's not that it's not possible. A lot of things are possible. Magic is possible, Psychics are possible, it's possible that in 2 seconds a monkey will crawl out of pr0xy's ass, but it's also not very likely or logical. You sound like the philospher who can't make up his mind. If everything you've seen and heard has followed a scientific pattern all your life, why would you still think there is magic? Of course if I see some super miracle(and I don't mean natural things that people claim are miracles), like the apocalypse bible-style, then I'll obviously change my views, but I don't justify that 0.001% of that happening to me being agnostic.

Atheist as always.

All fags go to hell.

All fags go to hell.

True, true

Um... I never said I was christian number 1. I also never said I believed "Just in case" you cant believe "just incase" and have it mean anything. You have to devote your heart and soul to jesus christ and the lord above.

I am spiritual... I see no reason not to. I mean think about it... If you are athiest and there is an afterlife... You are pretty much fucked. I used to be agnostic but I have proof enough personally that there is someone watching over us. So heaven and hell isnt so far fetched to me.

Um... I never said I was christian number 1. I also never said I believed "Just in case" you cant believe "just incase" and have it mean anything. You have to devote your heart and soul to jesus christ and the lord above.

Well I just go by what you post, that's really the only thing you can go by on a message board, right? You said in your first post that you are only religious because you see no reason not to be. You said Heaven and Hell isn't so far fetched to you, and that [what it seemed from context] the only reason you weren't an atheist because if you were then you'd be screwed. Then in your next post you say that you have to devote your heart and soul to Jesus Christ. Make up your mind; I think you just fear Hell. In any case, you're a contradictory and fraudulent person and obviously need to come to terms with yourself and your own beliefs.

I'm an Atheist.

I don't think Life after Death is possible...but if one or the other existed, then it'd be Hell.

Btw, don't Agnostics go to The Great Perhaps after death?

I agree with the bible has to say, I just hate church, and the people that go to it. You can't just ignore the bible because you are atheist, it has alot of good things to base your life off of. ( not saying anyone ignores it, but I'm sure someone does ) And if not going to church is going to land me in hell, even though I believe in what is good, then God is a douche.

An interesting fact.

There are so many religions or religious sects etc. that say "If you don't believe in our God then you go straight to Hell" that everyone should go straight to Hell therefore meaning Heaven is not needed.

Which is why I said if one or the other exists then it has to be Hell...among other reasons.

Well I just go by what you post, that's really the only thing you can go by on a message board, right? You said in your first post that you are only religious because you see no reason not to be. You said Heaven and Hell isn't so far fetched to you, and that [what it seemed from context] the only reason you weren't an atheist because if you were then you'd be screwed. Then in your next post you say that you have to devote your heart and soul to Jesus Christ. Make up your mind; I think you just fear Hell. In any case, you're a contradictory and fraudulent person and obviously need to come to terms with yourself and your own beliefs.

Still number 1. I never said I was religious. And I never said the reason I believe is because I see no reason not to be. I don't see any reason to not be spiritual but that isnt why I am spiritual. I used to be agnostic, I spent all my time looking for reasons as to why god did not exist, instead of both why and why not. So I was agnostic leaning on the side of atheism. As for fearing hell. I have no reason to. That doesnt even make sense.. It can't support your argument, talk about being contradictory. Lets think about it.

If I fear hell I must believe in heaven and hell correct? Therefore I cannot be athiest.

If I am a believer and I do believe jesus christ died for our sins then I also have no reason to fear hell because there is no possible way I could be denied access to heaven.

To me, it seems you make brash assumptions that are not fully thought out in an attempt to piss off another person who does not agree with your views.

Sorry to say this but... You failed.

::Long Sigh::
To start off you can't fail what you didn't attempt. Secondly, I never said you considered yourself to be atheist. That was obvious from your posts. I said what it sounded like, from your first post, is that you were atheist but you were too afraid to admit it. Then, if you didn't notice, you flurried up trying to defend your belief religious beliefs, as anyone in denial would.

True I said fear of hell, but fear of changing your whole beliefs or trying to contradict family teachings goes right along those lines. Going along the lines of a fear of hell, most people have the fear of no afterlife, that's disturbing to a child who's believed that all their life. As I said I really have no interest in talking to you, so please don't even respond to this post, go find a bible somewhere and pretend to read it. Trying to follow your logic is like trying to follow a blind retarded rat through a maze anyhow.

*Longer sigh* It appears to me that the only thing you are trying to do here is make me mad. Which I was not. There was no flurring up... I simply stated your flawed logic about the fear of hell... Hah... What family teachings. I shall go and PRETEND to read my bible... And I shall go PRETEND to talk with god... And PRETEND to pray. And hopefully you can PRETEND to not be an idiot, my logic is fairly complex so I understand your frustration.

I actually predicted that you'd say "longer sigh," really I did, after all you're the only person queer enough on this message board to do so. Like I said, I have no interest talking to a kid such as yourself. You can keep digging your hole deeper by continuing this fruitless argument, or you could just keep quiet while you're behind.

Admins if you want you can go ahead and remove this thread, this kid's obviously too adamant and stubborn to debate anything. I will respond no further to your pathetic and somewhat childish argument, so I guess you can get your last laugh in if you wish.

::Bows Gracefully::

Mjordan, it's not that it's not possible. A lot of things are possible. Magic is possible, Psychics are possible, it's possible that in 2 seconds a monkey will crawl out of pr0xy's ass, but it's also not very likely or logical. You sound like the philospher who can't make up his mind. If everything you've seen and heard has followed a scientific pattern all your life, why would you still think there is magic? Of course if I see some super miracle(and I don't mean natural things that people claim are miracles), like the apocalypse bible-style, then I'll obviously change my views, but I don't justify that 0.001% of that happening to me being agnostic.

No. Magic is not possible. The word magic itself insinuates fantasy. But there are most certainly events that have happend throughout the universe that human's can't explain, and perhaps never will explain, and I'm not talking about poltergiests or anything like that, I'm talking about the simple creation of the universe and everything in it. We take the universe for granted for the better part of our day; we never wonder about it. But if you think about it, science simply doesn't have a logical explanation for the creation of the universe, as for many other things. Sure, the big bang theory is the most likely, but that doesn't mean that I'm gonig to believe in that wholeheartedly. You have to be just as adamant to believe that as to believe the explanation for creation that any foolhardy religion gives you.

Physics is certainly possible. In fact, you can take physics word for word. Until you get to near-light speed, or at a quantum level. Then our whole basis for physics is shaken. Also, it is impossible for a monkey to come out of proxy's ass in two seconds, unless of course a monkey was recently shoved up proxy's ass, and proxy has died of internal hemorrhaging.

I used to think I was an atheist. Then I realized that I was not. I was in fact agnostic. Leaning towards atheism, perhaps, but I'm not an atheist. The dictionary describes an atheist as one who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods. Now if you think about this scientfically, one of the most primitive and basic yet indubitable laws of science is that something can not be made out of nothing, ergo, the universe simply can not just be. Following that law, one would have to believe that some power must have put it there -- god. Now, I'm not saying that's definite, but that is one scientific approach as to theorizing the existence of god. I, personally don't believe it. I also don't deny it. Believing it would be simply accepting what you've been told, and denying it would be your rebellion against contemporary views. Both views are influenced strongly by emotion. Atheism requires just as much hardheadedness as devoting yourself solely to a religion. Unless I learn something definite, the answer to whether god exists is a "I don't know," not a yes or no.

I believe that a good percentage of 'people of faith' only consider themselves that because of fear to admit that they don't believe. But deep down they don't believe.

I was afraid to admit I didnt believe in god for years and years, then one day I met some people that didn't believe either, and now I'm proud to share my beliefs.



I don't frown upon Christians, or Agnostics, or any other religions, I wouldn't begin to ever ever tell someone they should believe what they believe, and I FUCKING hate when christians tell me I'm gonna go to hell because I dont believe in god, what a joke

I don't believe in hell you whore, your words have no meaning to me

[/vent]

I'm not sure... I am Agnostic, but I still heavily lean towards the Christian faith. Thus, I'd have to say I do believe in them.

I'm sorry mjordan I don't believe I articulated myself very well. The argument I was attempting to elaborate was the "reality" concept. Perhaps not so much, but leaning more towards that than anything else. Magic is of course possible, to say it is not is actually being as close minded as you suggest Atheism to be. Is it not possible that we actually live in a world similar to the Matrix? Perhaps maybe an alien species created us and is guiding our evolution. Even yet, similar to the Matrix, maybe everything around you, your whole existence, is but a dream, and you'll awake somewhere else realizing you've been in a comma-like state your whole life.

All of these views are equally as fanciful as the idea of a being who created all life, all matter, all knowledge, all laws of physics. You're one who wants to bring this card to the table, so I ask you if God created everything, where did God come from? Who is this ultimate being?

So far, I believe that I have proven the existence of an ultimate being to be just as likely as my other inadmissable ideas presented above. Now to the point of why I consider myself atheist.

All my life I've seen and felt a scientific world. I've had things proven to me scientifically. Things I see, I touch, I smell, I hear, I taste. I've never once seen a ghost, I've never once seen a miracle, and I've never once heard the voice of God himself through me. I don't believe that God would have created us with the sensory organs we have if he were trying to create a religious race. So I have no basis for believing in God. I've also never seen an alien race, therefore I have no basis for believing we are simply a pawn of an alien race. Since my whole life has been this way, I can only lean toward what I know. I know science. It may be possible that I awake from a comma on an alien planet any minute now. Aliens may reveal themselves to the masses. God could reveal himself to the human race. All of these things are just as likely to happen. One must realize the odds of such an event are too small to even be weighed. They are however possible, and that's why I remain open minded and say that they are so.

I consider myself to be an Atheist because, as I said earlier, I believe in what I know and what I've known all my life. I don't put stock in assertions similar to the ones above. I'm not close minded about these ideas(including God), I just don't believe them to be very possible. I therefore consider myself Atheist.

Before I go I'd just like to comment back on your remark about light-speed and quantum physics. If I'm not mistaken, Einstein conquered the light-speed physics, or atleast what we know of it today. His theory of relativity explains a lot, but we've never had a chance to prove any of this. Of course our laws of physics cannot yet explain quantum physics, it's a fairly new discovery to the human race. Think back to electricity, when it was first discovered, it shook our views on science. Think back to gravity, when it was first discovered, it shook our views on science. Think back to the idea of a round world, when it was first discovered, it shook our ideas on science and the world at large. Quantum Physics is simply where we are at now, given time we will begin to understand it better than we already do. To even imply that Quantum Physics will not someday be tamed is a ludicrous idea.

Alright I'll leave you with that. If you do respond, and I'm sure you will, please don't simply assume an esoteric stance on everything put forth here. Also do not simply ignore my ideas and present your own, comment on what I've said here, prove me wrong if you can. I believe that we are both approaching the same ideas anyways, but perhaps from different sides.

So what you're saying is you're not really a christian, but you believe in a heaven and hell just in case. I was a christian for a long time, you'll go to hell anyways if you believe that way.

I used to have my own personal beliefs of what heaven and hell is. I don't have it "in case".